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 *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*

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Ed Randall

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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:59 am

TTN members have sent a letter to the mayor (Boris), to urge for his support for the Thames Tideway Tunnel ahead of its submission to the Government’s Planning Inspectorate (on Feb 28). We are also finalising a press release to accompany this to be sent out in the next couple of days.

FYI: Here is the Mayor’s recent unequivocal support for the project in his new (2011) book, ‘Johnson’s Life of London’ which includes a short chapter on ‘Joseph Bazalgette and the sewers’.

This chapter starts with reference to David Walliams swimming the length of the Thames for charity, the number of cholera deaths in the 1840s before then referencing the Great Stink and Bazalgette’s works to create the sewer system – highlighting the point that Bazalgette had the foresight to create a system with a capacity greater than was required at the time. The chapter ends with a paragraph which states:

Boris Johnson wrote:

‘A network of sewers designed for 2.5 million people has survived to deal with the sewage of 7.7 million people. It is a tribute to Victorian that it is only today that we are building again on this scale. Once we have completed the Thames Tideway Tunnel – a cloaca maxima running underneath the bed of the river – will we finally be able to deal with the unmentionable consequences of when the Bazalgette interceptors overflow. The river will not only be safe for trout, but charity swims of all kinds.’

TTN wrote:


Boris Johnson
Mayor of London
Greater London Authority
City Hall
The Queen's Walk
More London, London SE1 2AA



Thames Tunnel Now
C/O Thames21

78 -83 Upper Thames Street
Walbrook Wharf
London
EC4R 3TD



February 18, 2013

Dear Mr Johnson,


We are writing to you on behalf of Thames Tunnel Now, which, as you know, is a growing coalition of 25 environmental and wildlife charities and amenity groups representing around 5 million people, which came together in October 2011 to call for the end to sewage pollution in the tidal River Thames through the construction of the Thames Tideway Tunnel project. We firmly believe that this project is the right environmental solution to a very real and serious problem.


We are contacting you now as we understand that the formal planning application to build this long-awaited and much-needed piece of environmental infrastructure is due to be submitted to the Government’s Planning Inspectorate very shortly. Your support for cleaning up London’s river is well-documented and greatly appreciated by many thousands of our members and supporters.


You were absolutely right when you wrote in your Telegraph column in September 2011:


“Unless we act, neither man nor beast will survive the Thames in 10 years’ time... We are facing the long-term deterioration in Thames water quality, and unless we act now I am afraid no one in their right mind will be swimming this river in 10 years’ time....it is time to recognise that we can no longer rely on Victorian capital, and why Thames Water is right to be consulting on its proposed super-sewer, known as the Thames Tideway Tunnel. It is a breathtakingly ambitious project, on a scale that would have attracted the approval of Brunel and Bazalgette themselves.”


We also strongly support your statement that the Thames Tideway Tunnel is:

“…the right thing to do for the environment - and it is above all the right kind of thing to do for a country still struggling to get back to growth.”

Furthermore, your supportive and detailed submission last year to the Phase Two consultation was both welcome and much appreciated.


The reasons for continuing with your invaluable support for the project are as strong as ever, namely:

· London’s Victorian sewers can no longer cope. The city’s population is now eight million and rising. In a typical year millions of tonnes of untreated sewage discharge into the River Thames after as little as 2mm of rainfall. This shameful and unnecessary scenario has created unacceptable environmental and public health hazards.



· The sewage discharges breach the Urban Waste Water Treatment Directive; British taxpayers would face the prospect of hefty fines, if the tunnel is not built.

· Other suggested alternatives to the Thames Tideway Tunnel such as retrofitting the whole of London with SuDS, if even practically possible, would cost much more and fail to deliver the required river quality improvements in the required timescale. However, we see Green Infrastructure (GI) as a vital complement to the Tunnel.



GI solutions such as SuDS are an essential part of localised water management in any urban setting - from handling run-off to aiding the mitigation of a changing climate, and should be rolled out across the capital. Importantly, it is not a choice between GI and the Tunnel, it is a matter of how to implement and afford both strategies.

· The project will be a massive boost for London’s economy, creating nine thousand jobs and much needed apprenticeship opportunities.

Furthermore we were pleased to see that the Chancellor listed the Thames Tunnel as one of the country’s top 40 priority infrastructure projects and that it still enjoys strong cross–party support. This followed many years of independent study concluding with the previous Labour Government in 2007 asking Thames Water to take forward the Thames Tunnel, a decision which was twice endorsed by the Coalition Government in September 2010 and November 2011 and again in the Water White Paper ‘Water for Life’, published December 2011. The support of your predecessor, Ken Livingstone, has also been extremely helpful, as has your commitment, both on environmental and economic grounds.



Although the economic advantages are important, as you would expect, our prime reason for backing the Thames Tunnel is on environmental grounds.


London’s sewerage system, founded over 150 years ago, has served the capital well, but urgently needs more capacity to meet the needs of modern-day London. Although the River Thames is capable of supporting greater wildlife diversity and has won recent awards for its improved condition these were contingent on the Tunnel going ahead. Without it the river will remain an environmental and public health hazard at times of CSO discharge.


These discharges now occur more than once a week on average and as little as 2 mm of rainfall can trigger a discharge. In wetter years like the one we’ve just experienced the discharges can increase threefold. Due to the ebb and flow of the tide, it can take up to three months for sewage that has entered the uppermost reaches of the Thames Tideway to reach the sea. The CSO discharges spew not just urine and faecal matter into the river, but also nearly 10,000 tonnes of litter every year including toilet paper, wipes, sanitary towels, condoms, cotton buds and other ‘flushable’ items. The hidden dangers include harmful pathogens, viruses and bacteria, such as E coli, hepatitis A and faecal streptococci.

There are 30 rowing, canoeing and sailing clubs that regularly make use of the tidal Thames. London’s anglers love to fish the tidal stretches and literally thousands of people use the foreshore every day. Hundreds of thousands of tourists cruise the River Thames every year. A cleaner, healthy River Thames is essential for the prosperity and global reputation of London and the country as a whole. The Thames Tunnel will ensure that the excellent progress made to clean up the river will not be reversed, and ensure the capital remains a flourishing business centre and tourist destination.


Other world-leading cities, including Paris, Stockholm, Helsinki and Washington DC, as well as the Rhine/Ruhr conurbation in Germany, are forging ahead with similar schemes. London is in danger of being left behind. Failure to address the growing levels of untreated sewage in Britain’s most historic river, a key national asset, would inevitably earn the country the tag of being the ‘dirty man of Europe’ once again. This would do untold damage to the country’s reputation around the world.



It cannot be acceptable to continue to allow the River Thames to be an open sewer.


As Lord Chris Smith, Chairman, Environment Agency has said:

“The River Thames has improved significantly over the last 20 years, but further improvements are needed to deal with the unsatisfactory overflows of sewage. London’s sewerage network has nearly reached its capacity. In future due to increased population and volume of sewage it will exceed its capacity. This will steadily worsen the impact of the overflows as they will spill sewage more frequently into the river. Doing nothing is not an option. We consider the Thames Tunnel the best solution available to limit pollution from sewage in the Thames”

In conclusion, we urge you to take note of the views of Londoners as a whole and not just the vocal and highly localised protest groups, most of which have given up questioning the need for the Tunnel in favour of wanting it built somewhere else. A recent survey demonstrated 85% support for the Thames Tunnel and this figure is even higher amongst members of the organisations we represent, many of whom are looking to you as our Mayor to provide clear leadership on this important issue.


We hope you will submit a formal representation to the IPC in support of the Thames Tideway Tunnel application so that we can not only have great river in our capital city, but one of which we can all be proud.



We would very much like to meet with you to discuss this issue, and look forward to your office contacting us.



Yours sincerely,


Thames Tunnel Now

Carlo Laurenzi OBE, Chief Executive , London Wildlife Trust
Debbie Leach, Chief Executive, Thames21
Peter Finch, Chairman, River Thames Society
David Harvey, Chairman, Thames Anglers Conservancy


Thames Tunnel Now (TTN). Members include:- The Ahoy Centre, Deptford, Association of Thames Yacht Clubs, Angling Trust, Barge Association, Canoe England, Chiswick Pier Trust, Inland Waterways Association, , London Sustainability Exchange, London Wildlife Trust, London Corinthian Sailing Club, London Youth Rowing, Mammal Society, Marine Conservation Society, National Association of Boat Owners, Putney Bridge Canoe Club, River Thames Society, Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, Rowers Against Thames Sewage, Salmon & Trout Association, Thames21, Thames Anglers Conservancy, Thames Rivers Restoration Trust, Wildfowl and Wetlands Trust, WWF.




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David Harvey

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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:19 am

Don’t flush Londoners’ views down the stink-pipe - Your H&F

http://www.lbhf.gov.uk/Directory/News/Dont_flush_Londoners_views_down_the_stink_pipe.asp
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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:30 am

Demolish Hammersmith and build a field of SUDS cheers

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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:34 pm

They don't allow "democratic" use of their comments facility now on the H&F website, you have to send it to them and they decide (presumably) as to whether or not they accept individuals views... says it all really!


Richard cyclops
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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:10 am

A bit of light reading Shocked



Following a decade of study and over two years of public consApplication for Development Consentultation, Thames Water today (28 February 2013) officially submitted an application for Development Consent for the Thames Tideway Tunnel.

Members of the project team accompanied the 50,000-page document as it was delivered to the Planning Inspectorate.

The Inspectorate now has 28 days to decide if the application is valid before beginning the examination process.

If accepted, the Inspectorate will make the application available on their website and begin the formal examination process.
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Chris Wooding



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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:49 am

Fingers crossed now.
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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:45 pm

From: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/budget-boost-for-the-tube-and-4-billion-super-sewer-8539015.html

18 March 2013

Major London infrastructure projects including the £4 billion “super sewer”, thousands of new homes and the Northern line extension are expected to be given a push in this week’s Budget.

George Osborne’s third spring Budget will revolve around growth measures in the face of mounting concern about the slow pace of economic recovery.

Today it emerged that the Chancellor will admit in Wednesday’s speech that the Government will have to keep borrowing heavily for two more years than it originally planned, mainly because the flat-lining economy is failing to bring in the tax revenues needed.

Public sector debt is now set to continue rising until 2017/18, said an FT report which was not contradicted by experts in Whitehall, leaving in tatters the hope of eradicating the deficit by 2015/16. Mr Osborne is expected to give assurances on funding for the Thames

Tideway Tunnel scheme, or super sewer, which will stop 39 million tonnes of untreated sewage being flushed into the Thames every year.

The Chancellor has been in talks with the Qatar government about bringing in investment funding and has considered taking the plan from the private sector to secure an early start.

Mr Osborne is determined to speed up the pace of big infrastructure investments and is hoping to announce a breakthrough on the Northern line extension to Nine Elms and Battersea, which will serve the vast area of regeneration around Vauxhall, Nine Elms and Battersea power station.

A much-trailed plan to extend help to first-time home buyers is set to be announced before the Budget, along with a further relaxation of planning rules to speed up thousands of homes.

Mr Osborne is expected to announce he will raise the income tax threshold to £10,000 next year — meeting a key Liberal Democrat pledge a year earlier than planned.

Yesterday he sweetened the warm-up by bringing forward a single-tier state pension worth about £144 a week to 2016 along with a £72,000 cap on social care costs to be paid by the elderly under reforms. Gas-rich Middle Eastern state Qatar is said to be planning to invest £10 billion in infrastructure projects in Britain, including road and rail projects.
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David Harvey

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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:34 pm

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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:46 pm

Just managed to catch a bit of the ITV London news at lunchtime today & there was a short film about the old sewers & proposed tunnel.

Missed the start of it so don't know if the story was in relation to any specific news or just a general awareness item, but at the end they did say the works were likely to cause severe disruption around the 20 odd(?) proposed construction sites along the route so strong opposition was likely.

Might be repeated after this evening's national news, I suppose.

PS did I hear the Thames Water chap correctly (Philip Streetly was it?) - that the pumping station was going to be the equivalent of a 20 storey building underground?
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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:53 pm

Here we are with the CTN fella revealed and same old, same old.

Googling he is very anti TW anyway



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBjnFhVkXJI


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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:57 pm


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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:58 pm

David Harvey wrote:
Here we are with the CTN fella revealed and same old, same old.

Googling he is very anti TW anyway

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBjnFhVkXJI
We appear to be at the beginning of a very fruitful relationship (click the link). Twisted Evil


Richard pirat


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David Harvey

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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Wed May 01, 2013 11:03 am

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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Wed May 01, 2013 11:15 am

Sounds like a abuse of power to me Dave,its not Tower Hamlets authority is it?
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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Wed May 01, 2013 12:57 pm

"Bermondsey & Rotherhithe Community Council" are a sub-committee of Southwark.

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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Wed May 01, 2013 8:58 pm

So this opposition to the Thames tunnel is funded by the ratepayers of the council,I read the thread posted by
David and the comments on Chambers Wharf which is on the Tower Hamlets side,I hope TH council do not fund opposition tunnel community groups in the borough with ratepayers money(i.e. my bloody money)or if they do
abide by their own fair charter and and fund the pro tunnel groups.
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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Fri May 17, 2013 5:06 pm


I've registered as requested by AT.


Friday 17th May 2013
Thames Tideway Tunnel
Stand up for a Cleaner Tidal Thames
Register now as Interested Party - Angling Trust

To: Angling Trust members in London and the South East

Dear Angling Trust member,

As you may know the Angling Trust, along with Thames Anglers Conservancy, is a founder member of Thames Tunnel Now, the coalition set up to press for the completion of the Thames Tideway Tunnel which will intercept 34 of the worst polluting Combined Sewer Overflows and help put an end to the scandal of 39 million tonnes of untreated sewage polluting both the tidal river and the estuary.

Sadly there are those who don't care about dead fish and wildlife or polluted rivers and who are trying to stop or delay the project. They will be raising their objections during the planning process which is why those of us who care for our rivers and the environment must make our voices heard loud and clear.

It will only take five minutes to stand up for a cleaner tidal Thames - the deadline is May 28th so we need to move fast.

We urge each and every individual member and angling club in the region to register as an 'interested party' for the examination of the Thames Tideway Tunnel application. You won't have to attend the examination if you don't want to but it is only by registering now that our voices can be heard.

We have set out at the end of this email the process for registering, and provided the link. It is very straightforward and can be done entirely online.

Unless we register as interested parties at this stage, as individuals or organisations, we will not be able to make representations to the Inspectorate during the all-important six month long examination which starts in September. Registering as an interested party will not require anyone to give evidence in person but it enables us to attend the initial meetings, examine the evidence of others and to provide any submissions of our own. The Angling Trust is happy to represent any registered angling clubs who want us to during this process.

At this stage all the Planning Inspectorate needs is a short statement of no more than 500 words setting out why as anglers or as an angling organisation you have an interest in this project. To make things easy we've included some key points that you can include in your statement, but please try and personalise these a bit if you can so that they aren't all exactly the same!

Key Points to consider for possible inclusion in your statement:

The reasons for proceeding with the TTT are as strong as ever, namely:

  • Anglers from across our region love to fish the tidal stretches of Thames and further downstream the estuary is an important saltwater fishery and nursery area for sea fish stocks in the North Sea and English Channel. We have seen regular fish kills of hundreds of thousands of fish over recent years, often following summer storms during periods of low flow.


  • London's Victorian sewers, built for two million people, can no longer cope. The city's population is now eight million and rising. In a typical year up to 39 million tonnes of untreated sewage discharges into the River Thames, and overflows are triggered by as little as 2mm of rainfall. This shameful and unnecessary scenario has created unacceptable environmental and public health hazards. The Thames and Lee Tunnels and associated improvements will tackle nearly all this pollution.


  • The sewage discharges breach the EU Urban Waste Water Treatment Directive; British taxpayers would face the prospect of hefty fines, if the tunnel is not built.


  • It can take up to three months for sewage that has entered the uppermost reaches of the Thames Tideway to reach the sea. The CSOs discharge not just urine and faecal matter into the river, but also nearly 10,000 tonnes of litter every year including toilet paper, wipes, sanitary towels, condoms, cotton buds and other 'flushable' items. The hidden dangers include harmful pathogens, viruses and bacteria, such as E coli, hepatitis A and faecal streptococci.


  • London's sewerage system, founded over 150 years ago, has served the capital well, but urgently needs more capacity to meet the needs of modern-day London. Although the River Thames is capable of supporting greater wildlife diversity and has won recent awards for its improved condition these were contingent on the Tunnel going ahead. Without it the river will remain an environmental and public health hazard at times of CSO discharge.


  • Currently sewerage discharges occur more than once a week on average and in wetter years, like the one we've just experienced, the discharges can increase threefold. There are 30 rowing, canoeing and sailing clubs that regularly make use of the tidal Thames.


  • Literally thousands of people use the Thames foreshore every day. Hundreds of thousands of tourists cruise the river every year. A cleaner, healthy River Thames is essential, not just for anglers, but for the prosperity and global reputation of London and the country as a whole. The Thames Tunnel will ensure that the excellent progress made to clean up the river will not be reversed.


So please click on this link before May 28 and join us in standing up for a cleaner Thames for everyone.

http://infrastructure.planningportal.gov.uk/projects/london/thames-tideway-tunnel



Notes on registering as an interested party for the Thames Tideway Tunnel

Click HERE to find out how you can register to become an interested party in the application. In summary:
-You can register to become an interested party when Thames Water begins advertising the application, subject to acceptance. Registration is now open and closes on May 28th

-The Planning Inspectorate reference for the Application, which is WW010001, should be quoted in any correspondence.

-Representations, which at this stage should be no more than 500 words, must be made direct to the Planning Inspectorate using the Registration and Relevant Representation Form. Representations may not be valid if the form is incomplete or received after the registration deadline (expected to be mid-May). The Registration and Relevant Representation Form is available from the Planning Inspectorate:

Web: http://infrastructure.planningportal.gov.uk/projects/london/thames-tideway-tunnel

Tel: 0303 444 5000.

The Planning Inspectorate encourages registration online, if at all possible. Where it is not possible to register online, completed paper copies should be sent to:

The Planning Inspectorate (National Infrastructure Directorate), Temple Quay House, Temple Quay, Bristol, BS1 6PN.


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David Harvey

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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Sat May 18, 2013 5:30 pm

This is why we support it....

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David Harvey

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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Sat May 18, 2013 7:33 pm

I have just been through the process again and its very simple. You do not need to offer to attend any further consultations unless you so wish.

The bullet points as stated can be cut and pasted within reason.

Please take time to register, the TAC was formed to campaign for an end to the sewage and we now are at a very key stage, its getting close

Make it count !

Deadline is the 28th May

** Post on here when its done, its will take a little work but is one of the key aims of the TAC**

Best watch the video first taken by Steve Holmes in June 20111
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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Tue May 21, 2013 10:34 am

Hi All
Have just registered my interest in supporting the building of the Thames Tunnel. In my view it should
have been done thirty years ago.Being brought up in docklands I can remember the river being in a
disgusting state with all manner of things being dumped in it.If you fly tip you can be fined up to £50.000
pounds and yet in this day and age we allow millions tons of raw sewerage to be dumped yearly in our
beloved river.The same councils which enforce fly tipping oppose the building of the thames tunnel.
Double Standards?
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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Wed May 22, 2013 6:13 pm

Okee dokee people, I'll try and make the process easier to follow, as following;

Once you have clicked on this link: Planning Portal and have the planning portal opened in a seperate tab;

1. Click on Register Online

2. Section 1. Choose the first option: "I am completing this form for myself to give my own personal views." - then fill in your details. At the bottom of Section 1 they'll ask you if it's okay to communicate via email rather than post, click "Yes" option.

3. Section 2. Do you have "Interest in land"? Choose "Yes" - and then tick the last box of 4 that states: "I have some other legal interest in all or part of the land to which the application relates" (which is namely that you are a licence holder to fish). Additionally choose "No" regarding the option as to whether you wish to speak at a compulsory acquisition hearing.

4. Section 3. "Your representation" - This doesn't have to be 500 words long, you can simply bullet point using words similar to the following, but not exactly the same:

Copy and paste the following at the top of "your representation".

Planning Inspectorate reference: WW010001 - I am a member of the Thames Anglers' Conservancy who will represent my views at the later stages.


Now write in the field provided a few paragraphs containg the following points:

1. I (have) fish(ed) the Tidal Thames and find the fish kills due to pollution unacceptable (see above ATr post for further points/ellaboration).

2. The Thames Tunnel is necessary to help prevent such incidents occurring in the near future.

3. The sewage discharges breach the EU Urban Waste Water Treatment Directive; British taxpayers would face the prospect of hefty fines, if the tunnel is not built.

4. The health risks for me as an angler when fishing the tidal Thames are unacceptable, the proposed tunnel will prevent the vast majority of these appalling sewage incidents occurring once a week on average, which will also help the environment.

5. A cleaner river is not only of benefit for me as an angler, but it is also has benefits for all those that use the river on a daily basis (such as boaters, rowers etc.), as well as enhancing the reputation of the country as a whole.



5. "Do you wish to attend the preliminary meeting?" - Choose "No", as the Committee will represent your views.

6. "Do you wish to submit a written representation at a later stage?" - As above in 5., choose "No".

7. "If an open floor hearing is held, would you like the opportunity to speak at it?" - As above, choose "No".

8. "If an issue specific hearing is held relating to an issue raised by your representation, would you like to have the opportunity to speak at it?" - Once again choose "No".

9. The last bit to complete is to complete the 'CAPTCHA' and then submit.



The deadline is MAY 28th, click here for the Planning Portal.

This will take around 5-10 minutes to complete, thanks for your help, it is truly appreciated.


Richard Basketball


Last edited by Richard Crimp on Wed May 22, 2013 10:45 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Neil Depledge

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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Wed May 22, 2013 8:08 pm

Done.
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Richard Crimp
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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Wed May 22, 2013 10:43 pm

Nice one Neil! Cool


Richard
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David Harvey

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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Fri May 24, 2013 11:37 am

Thanks Neil Smile

Come on folks, make that difference Smile

Did anyone see the Anglers Mail this week, was the Tunnel in there ? Made it on the AM website http://www.anglersmail.co.uk/news/anglers-in-london-south-east-urged-to-stand-up-for-the-thames/
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David Harvey

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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   Sun May 26, 2013 7:55 pm

2 days left to make your views count and stop the sewage!
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PostSubject: Re: *Thames Tunnel (Tideway Tunnel)*   

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