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 Tidal Sewage and whats left behind

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David Harvey

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PostSubject: Tidal Sewage and whats left behind   Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:24 pm

Met up with James A tonight, good to see you mate.

Went down to his local reach of the full tidal to see what affects the multiple overflows have had since June. I will let James add more but here are a few pics..

Firstly, the shore should look like this, cleanish gravels



But is thick with..



and lots more



around a foot deep close in



This pool is aorund 4ft deep according to James and has always been clear and full of fish, now it 4 ft of sh*t and stinking, no doubt a major health hazard. The run off at the end should be a run off, now just a trickle..





More..



The shoreline here should be part gravel, now all the same..




No signs of fish movement, river a dirty grey brown, same old question, just what could it be like.

Need the Tunnel







Last edited by David Harvey on Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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David Harvey

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PostSubject: Re: Tidal Sewage and whats left behind   Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:55 pm

And a to be announced date to clear this lot up, more plastic bottles than you would think possible








Last edited by David Harvey on Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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James Annear



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PostSubject: tidal sewage and whats left behind   Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:30 pm

good to see you dave and nice to meet you jim,
the only thing to add to the above pictures are, if you turn the clock back 12 months the river was perfect,
full of fish topping, anglers catching, even cormorants catching!. Since june i have watched the river deteriorate into the state it is in now and i,m afraid to say it is,nt going to get any better, with all the toing and froing from the suits in charge nothing will be done until it becomes an environmental health problem.
Another thing i find strange is the almost audible silence from the so called "voice of angling" the angling trust and the so called "celebrity anglers" who take money out of the game, but when it becomes a bit of a no-go area, they seem to disappear up their own arses from fear of saying the wrong thing and upsetting their paymasters.
This will only get sorted when the government step in and and tell Thames water that, the Thames is Englands greatest river and not their private dumping ground, but dont hold your breath.
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James Page



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PostSubject: Re: Tidal Sewage and whats left behind   Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:41 am

james, what an eye opener
thanks for the pics dave

how do you move up to a 4ft depth of stinking silt covered in a slimy skin
the only answer I can think of is a line of bucketeers

maybe its time to recall the steely sixteen
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Ed Randall

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PostSubject: Re: Tidal Sewage and whats left behind   Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:43 am

Yuk. If that's what I think it is I wouldn't want to go anywhere near it.
So much for the river being self scouring, the EA might just need to buy back their dredgers.
The tunnel won't be ready until 2020 that's another 10 years of this filth.
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PostSubject: Re: Tidal Sewage and whats left behind   Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:50 pm

The EA said yesterday that this could be Intertidal mud which is naturally occurring but normally seen further down stream. They have looked back at years where the river has extended periods of low flow, this can be a result and stated it is important habitat. To an extent these pictures have sparked the debate which is good.

We believe some sampling will be done soon and we will find out just what is there, the TAC view was expressed that is was a result of the sewage, possibly the two elements are combined.
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Matt Johnson

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PostSubject: Re: Tidal Sewage and whats left behind   Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:10 pm

Admin wrote:
The EA said yesterday that this could be Intertidal mud which is naturally occurring but normally seen further down stream. They have looked back at years where the river has extended periods of low flow, this can be a result and stated it is important habitat. To an extent these pictures have sparked the debate which is good.

We believe some sampling will be done soon and we will find out just what is there, the TAC view was expressed that is was a result of the sewage, possibly the two elements are combined.

evening gents, i was looking at the pictures and to be honest i like the EA believe the mud to be a result of low river flows throughout the summer. pop upstream to marble hill park and the gravel beds there have a layer of mud on during the summer/low tides, but during the winter and flood waters the sediment is washed away. not saying this is right, but has been happening over the past 20+ years i have been angling around there.
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James Annear



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PostSubject: tidal sewage and whats left behind   Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:20 am

I take what you say onboard Matt, but with all due respect, Marble Hill Park is above Richmond and on the semi-tidal, the river at Hammersmith is a very different animal. Fishing the river is not the same as living next to the river for twenty years
I dont go along with the EA,s story of intertidal and low flows, this is a problem what has come about in the last few months and is 100% Thames Water,s blame for polluting what was a great stretch of river to fish.
The EA mention important habitat, important habitat for what?, because you can be assured, this stretch is completely devoid of fish.
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Steve Holmes



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PostSubject: Re: Tidal Sewage and whats left behind   Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:06 am

Matt I'm not a scientist and I'm no expert but.....the mud that builds up at Marble Hill on the semi is different - it's silt from being on the inside of a bend. It's different from the stinking green sh*t infested stuff on the full. Here's a pic of what it looks like at Marble Hill, good honest semi tidal silt. Compare that to the pics above on the full tidal near sewage outfalls...





Last edited by Steve Holmes on Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Steve Holmes



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PostSubject: Re: Tidal Sewage and whats left behind   Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:40 am

Last year, I walked every bit of foreshore at LT Richmond - Battersea and fished every stretch at least once. The only times I came cross that green-tinged stinking silt was by outflow pipes. I concede there was also definitely silt build ups on bends but not the foul, sweaty stuff. There is some normal intertidal mud build up that hasn't been washed away yet due to low flow but that there is also a massive build up of sewage.

I ain't no genius but over 1,000,000 tonnes of raw sewage has hit the tidal lately, so I don't think that's nectar we're looking at.

Last year doing my angling legwork, I took pics straight out, up and downstream of every swim so I could remember where the gravel was, the sand beaches were and the big snags. Luckily for us, as a comparison I took them exactly a year ago. Compare with the pics of the Hammersmith stretch earlier in this thread. Make your own minds up if what you saw in the thread earlier is normal.

So...pics this time a year ago:

Dove pier - maybe 400 yards upstream of Hammersmith Bridge, if that. Clean shingle.



St Paul's school slipway, same distance - you'll notice the clean sand....now you know last year's flounder spot...fat use that it was Smile



Hammersmith Bridge in sight - that's clean sand



Harrods Depository - Hammersmith Bridge still visible - clean shingle





Last edited by Steve Holmes on Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:16 am; edited 4 times in total
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Steve Holmes



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PostSubject: Re: Tidal Sewage and whats left behind   Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:56 am

A double whammy. A pic of a beautifully coloured, tip top condition full tidal bream caught by Martin Steggall about a mile from Hammersmith, complete with clean shingle background. I think it was upper 7lb something but that's immaterial - it was in great nick, as were the dozen or so I caught in the shadows of Hammersmith Bridge in the previous weeks.



I hope it's still swimming.


Last edited by Steve Holmes on Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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William Pettigrew

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PostSubject: Re: Tidal Sewage and whats left behind   Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:10 am

great post and pics steve.
dont know about everyone else? but this is catastrophic,i feel sick and helpless.

rivers,the veins of the universe.
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James Page



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PostSubject: Re: Tidal Sewage and whats left behind   Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:23 am

love it chaps, this is what its all about, trying to reach a concensus of opinion
steve, theres a touch of the dark horse in you m8, all that foreshore, all that exposed riverbed, all those lovely pics, you've got more than enough to give the club a presentation/slideshow

my opinion is the same as others, the silt/intertidal gloop at hammersmith is different to that upstream
on the ham bank at the upstream end of eel pie island is a mudbank that has been there since before I was a boy, it is at least 3 times larger than the area at hammersmith, is subject to far less tidal flow and can often be seen peppered with gulls, waterfowl and crows
the gloop at hammersmith I climbed down a ladder to see close up, smells different, has a sticky consistency and a skin similar to what you get on rice pudding
the groyn stretching out from the riverbank is creating the slack, it used to be able to enter itself back into the river via a channel, this has become filled

half a dozen people and some elbow grease could reinstate the channel
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Ed Randall

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PostSubject: Re: Tidal Sewage and whats left behind   Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:39 am

Steve, fantastic, those photo's are Solid Gold, a time stamped record of the state of the river.
Comparison is a bit tricky even on the Hammersmith bridge ones due to the different angle, can't make out if they are taken from the same side, and the light is different.
Would it be worth going along the same stretch again sometime very soon (maybe this weekend, being the anniversary, Walliams swimming past, and so on) and get a new set from the same locations and camera angles as you took before?
I've got a few taken along opposite Syon Park house this August; The shore that looked like gravel from the towpath I remember being quite muddy when we actually went down and walked on it, only a thin layer and not obscuring the gravel though, that's more like what I think of as silt.

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Steve Holmes



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PostSubject: Re: Tidal Sewage and whats left behind   Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:30 am

EdRandall wrote:
Comparison is a bit tricky even on the Hammersmith bridge ones due to the different angle, can't make out if they are taken from the same side, and the light is different.

Yep different banks, Dave and James's North bank, mine South Bank.

Looking thru (hundreds?) of tidal Thames swim pics last night the only places there was a sizeable build up of silt/mud was the natural places you'd expect, on bends.

Kew Bridge North bank in front of the slip
Bulls Alley in Mortlake
Outside of Brentford Ait
St Marys Church Battersea, right up by the slip
Inside bend of Olivers Island in Kew. Olivers Island is different though....almost like sinking sand and it's always there - in fact, there's signs up warning about it.

I walked on them all, even the sinking sand (for 10 yards till I lost my bottle Razz ) and none of them were that gloop.




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James Annear



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PostSubject: tidal sewage and whats left behind   Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:02 pm

TO ALL TAC MEMBERS.
Great to see people showing their fears and concerns regarding the lower Thames, had a bit of a brainwave at work today, (believe me, they dont come often).
About 25-30 years ago, the Angling Times ran an experimental match along the tidal from Hammersmith to Putney, it was well attended by several well known matchmen of the time, including England internationals, i cant remember weights of fish caught, but they did catch fish.
It made me think, with all the photos, personal observations and emails sent to various bodies in control, why dont we do what we all love to do and fish the river ourselves in our own experiment, 10,15,20 of us all in a line, one rod, one method, (blockend feeder), one bait,(maggot), and, just for our own peace of minds, see if there are any fish in there.
If this could be got together, it would be nice to do it before the weather turns.
We could all meet up at Hammersmith or Barnes bridge and just fish on a falling tide downstream.
For those without transport, no problem, you wont need your bivvy or carp barrows, Hammersmith bridge is well served by public transport as is Barnes bridge.
Bring the wives, bring the kids, stick the flags up, if you have the ear of your local rag, flag it up, people walking past will see something they have,nt seen before and will be curious as to whats going on, local residents will have more knowledge to whats going on in their neighbourhood.
Now for the hypocracy, alas for me it has to be a Sunday, because of work commitments, but thats not such a bad thing, everybody goes for a walk along the river on Sundays.
Just an idea, tell me what you think.
Cheers
James
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William Pettigrew

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PostSubject: Re: Tidal Sewage and whats left behind   Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:16 pm

great idea jim,name the date Rolling Eyes
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James Annear



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PostSubject: tidal sewage and whats left behind   Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:21 pm

cheers willie,
If we can get enough numbers, we can organise a date.
P.A.C. pike anglers club i think
cheers
james
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James Page



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PostSubject: Re: Tidal Sewage and whats left behind   Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:28 pm

pukka suggestion m8, sometimes its the obvious that I dont see
pick a date that suits you james and we'll sort the kit and assemble the troops
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James Annear



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PostSubject: tidal sewage and whats left behind   Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:33 am

Alright Jim,
Obviously not this Sunday, but any after, would be handy to have a someone who can work out the tides at Barnes/Hammersmith.
cheers
james
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David Harvey

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PostSubject: Re: Tidal Sewage and whats left behind   Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:12 am

James that is a great idea, lets get a date sorted out when the tide is right.

Here is a tide table for Putney, date wise 16 Oct looks good but not sure if the weather woud have turned. Happy top split this thread and create Tidal fish in one. Smile

http://rjweb.myby.co.uk/Tides2011-Putney.pdf

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James Annear



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PostSubject: tidal sewage and whats left behind   Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:02 am

Alright Dave,
Lets make it 16th October, weather should still be alright, gives people time to make themselves available,
Lets have a show of strength, fishing or just attending.
Hammersmith or Barnes bridge? parking query?
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Steve Holmes



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PostSubject: Re: Tidal Sewage and whats left behind   Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:30 pm

I'm in.

Much easier parking near to Barnes Bridge. In fact, Hammersmith parking is a mare.
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James Annear



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PostSubject: tidal sewage and whats left behind   Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:16 pm

Nice one Steve,
So thats Sunday 16th October, meet at Barnes Bridge 7/8.00am?

names so far:
myself
jim
dave
willie
steve

could do with a lot more
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Krzysztof Nowobilski



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PostSubject: Barnes Bridge   Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:03 pm

Easier to park on the Chiswick side.Free parking in Dukes Meadows, unless Hounslow have decided to put in pay and display.
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