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  River Guardians Reports 2011/12

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Neil Baker



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Join date : 2011-05-16

PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:30 pm

Andrew

Would you or your brother be able to meet Paul down there or call him directly and provide details of the events that took place on Sunday? I have his number but don't really want to make it public without his consent so if so msg me and i'll give you it.

The sooner the signs go up the better, he seemed to be taking it very seriously though especially as I've had 2 phone calls from the Police about the materand they were very interested to know more about the goings on there.



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Steve Holmes



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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:30 pm

James Page wrote:
nice one chaps
we can all recount problems, but we need to recount solutions
signs with contact numbers are a must, preferably 24 hr


The one and only solution is the EA to change the 200 year out-of-date Thames byelaws to now only allow small (bait sized) fish to be taken.

Then and only then will it be worth the signs (so they can't claim ignorance when we call the police).


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David Harvey

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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:55 pm

Have spoken to the EA about the subject on the Thames, now going to feedback more from what has been posted.

We suggested better signs, in fact any signs in the key areas.

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Andrew Shaw

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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:05 pm

Neil Baker wrote:
Andrew

Would you or your brother be able to meet Paul down there or call him directly and provide details of the events that took place on Sunday? I have his number but don't really want to make it public without his consent so if so msg me and i'll give you it.

The sooner the signs go up the better, he seemed to be taking it very seriously though especially as I've had 2 phone calls from the Police about the materand they were very interested to know more about the goings on there.




I will be back up that way tomorrow on the river if you drop me a message with his number I will try and give him a call this evening or tomorrow.

Andy.
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Steve Holmes



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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:56 pm

David Harvey wrote:
We suggested better signs, in fact any signs in the key areas.


It can't harm mate but most will ignore them.

Even me and you fished in front of a No Fishing sign last summer...didn't even see it till near the end of the session scratch

And also...what will the signs say? "You can only kill and eat 2 specimen fish each day"....cos that's what the current law says they can do.

That law has to change, nothing else will do.


Last edited by Steve Holmes on Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ed Randall

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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:18 pm

Where does this 2 big barbel thing come from? I looked on the EA website just now and it shows the same old byelaws with minimum sizes that have been in force since 1976 for Thames region: http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/recreation/fishing/31465.aspx
Quote :

i) The prohibition on taking undersized fish
No person shall take away from any waters within the area any fish of a kind and of a size less the following:
  • Barbel 40cm
  • Chub 30cm
  • Rudd 20cm
  • Bleak 10cm
  • Gudgeon 13cm
  • Tench 25cm
  • Bream 30cm
  • Perch 22cm
  • Brown Trout 25cm
  • Carp 30cm
  • Pike 60cm
  • Dace 15cm
  • Crucian Carp 18cm
  • Roach 18cm
  • Grayling 25cm

ii) Bag limits
No person without the previous consent in writing of the Authority when fishing with rod and line shall take away from any waters within the area in any one day more than two fish of which not more than one may be tench, carp, barbel, bream or pike.
To me that does at least mean only one big barbel, and if you take a big barbel you can't have a big carp as well. OK it's still one too many I agree...

Then the newer 1991 Act / December 2009 national byelaws at the bottom of this page: http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/recreation/fishing/119393.aspx
Quote :
Byelaw 3 Fish Removal

(i) No person may remove by rod and line any freshwater fish listed in Schedule 1
from any river, stream or drain, or from the waters listed in either Schedule 2 or
Schedule 3 except:

(a) 15 fish, other than grayling, of not more than 20cm per day.
(b) 1 pike of not more than 65cm per day.
(c) 2 grayling of not less than 30cm and not more than 38cm per day.

The maximum sizes in the national byelaw complement with the minimum sizes in the regional byelaw and you can't actually take any Barbel, Chub, Tench, Bream, Perch, Brown Trout, Carp, Pike... you're not allowed to take a Barbel less than 40cm and you're not allowed to take one over 20cm. Logic says you can't take any. Case closed your honour! :farao:

If that's wrong it proves what an almighty ****-up the whole thing is, I can't even understand how to apply the stupid things, they need to sort that out ASAP.
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Steve Holmes



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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:48 pm

Ed

I need to correct what I said about being able to take 2 big barbel a day as I scanned it too quickly. You can only take 1 big (i.e. above the minimum size limit) barbel a day ...but you could in addition take e.g a specimen perch, chub, roach.

"No person without the previous consent in writing
of the Authority when fishing with rod and line shall
take away from any waters within the area in any
one day more than two fish of which not more than
one may be tench, carp, barbel, bream or pike."

And if I read the exclusion clause down from that correctly you could BBQ one of the few zander we have.

An Eastern European can BBQ 2 of OUR fish per day, every day...which we pay our licence to fish for, so long as they're big enough to be above the minimum sizes! Legally!

Crazy. We have to get this changed.
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Ed Randall

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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:30 pm

Good, so we've got the first part straight.
So what's the interaction between the local and national byelaws then that's what I want to understand fully. Do they add, subtract, or does one nullify or override the other?!

What it says ( http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/recreation/fishing/31465.aspx ) is:
Quote :
Rod Fishing Byelaws
Please read our rod fishing byelaws before you go fishing.
Byelaws protect fish stocks and fisheries in England and Wales. They apply to all waters, whether they are owned by angling clubs, local authorities or private individuals. Owners may impose additional rules, but they cannot dispense with any byelaws that apply to their water.
National rod fishing byelaws
There are national byelaws that apply across the whole of England and Wales, and regional byelaws which only apply locally. You need to read the national byelaws AND your local regional byelaws before you go fishing.

To me, that says they both apply. They add together. So the National byelaws apply everywhere, and THEN the local ones are additional restrictions on top.
Example result for a Pike:
  • You can only take 1 fish a day (national)
  • Maximum size of fish is 65cm (national)
  • Minimum size of fish is 60cm (local)
  • You can't take more than 1 pike (local)
Result => You can take 1 Pike between 60-65cm ONLY.

Example for a Barbel:
  • You take up to 15 fish a day (national)
  • Maximum size of fish is 20cm (national)
  • Minimum size of fish is 40cm (local)
  • You can't take more than 1 Barbel (local)
Result => You can only take 1 Barbel so long as it is LESS than 20cm AND MORE than 40cm => impossible, you can't take any Barbel. There are so few prosecutions I suspect this has never actually been tested in court. Fish Legal should get on to it.
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James Page



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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:54 am

gotta agree with steve, a blanket ban, if anglers such as ourselves are confused, gawd'elp any one else
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James Page



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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:10 am

the dutch barge being converted above teddington, has moved on because kingston council has acted, unfortunately he has left a stack of corrugated iron, 3 pallets and some other rubbish
as its to big a stack to manhandle, we're getting assistance from the lockeepers at teddington

hopefully pauly 2 cups has got a pic
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John Barnes

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Location : hythe kent.

PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:15 am

i have emailed the ea yesterday with a brief outline of whats been happening and what has been said and seen of this and other forums.
once i get a response back i will post on here as and when that is as i can then try and take it to the next level.
just back from session on cig island there were 3 ee there when i got there and got into coversation with them and they had rod licence. i did say that you cannot take no more fish to eat as new law trying to help and all you get is no no eating i said but you lot do eat yes but not me,so said if i see you take i call police withing 15min they were gone good lol
one of them said he fished cannons park near morden and saidcaught 6 small green colour fish and then i said you put back after some ee chat beetween them one said yes hmm dont think so.
i only had 1 bream and 4 other anglers a big 0 so maybe whats been happening in the last few years is starting to take its toll.
we need to all come together inc the ea need to get off there big un and realise what is going on,
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Steve Holmes



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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:25 am

EdRandall wrote:

So what's the interaction between the local and national byelaws then. Do they add, subtract, or does one nullify or override the other?!

That'll be the crux of it. As you're alluding to Ed, it may be the laws already prevent taking of any fish of certain species by the national cancelling the local laws.

I doubt it though unfortunately, otherwise there'd be no point having local laws.

I think scratch Razz
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Ed Randall

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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:26 am

I like to think that they will add together not cancel out. But it's not clear and the result is an unsatisfactory situation where no-one understands the law and nothing is done when the rules are broken, there is no clear penalty or sanction and no clear policing responsibility.

Since the EA have recently amalgamated Thames and South East in to a combined Southern region, there is a clear opportunity for them to produce a new set of clearer and more effective Southern Region byelaws. Seems to me that would be an achievable first step.

The starting point being to disambiguate and toughen the no-take rule right down to zero.

Something worth lobbying for. (Second step if successful could be to roll it out nationally, maintaining such regional variations as are necessary).
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Admin
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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:23 pm

Believe that the rules were changed to cover taking livebaits, but as illustrated, confusion reigns.
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William Pettigrew

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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:31 pm

had a walk along beverley brook with pauly 2 cups,stopped to have a look at some fish under the overhanging bank.
one second on the bank,next second in the brook with tree following me,and a couple of hundred pound of concrete kerbstone and half a ton of bankside soil affraid
it was as if my life flashed before me,i looked up from the 4 foot of water i was in through my splashed spectacles,and saw paul above me telling me to grab his hand,so gently i managed to free my foot that was wedged under the concrete,and paul pulled me out while i was saying"there goes my swim"lol.
after i got my composure back and looked down into the once beautiful swim,i couldnt believe what happened.
affraid

anyway the brook looks in great condition and the fish are spawning Very Happy

ill have to go back and clean up the devastation sometime soon.

willie Smile Smile .but very sore.
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Richard King

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PostSubject:   River Guardians Reports        Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:54 am

Just got in from a few hours on the cut at desbough. We blanked. But we found the remains of a butchered swan a very sad sight.
Our EE friends seem to be using the island as a free supermarket!!!
Could some late night walk rounds put a stop to this area being used in this way? I would suggest we do it in groups of at least three or more to prevent any trouble!(after what happened at the weekend). I will report to the ea and local police in the am. I am un able to do anything this weekend but would be able to do next weekend (7&8 th july).
If you fancy it let me know.
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Keith Collett

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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:14 am

Ahoy Matey, und thee dogs, Aaarrgghh cough, cough, wot a good day yestersay, went to Crabs island (PHI) to have a good spy, Aaarrggh, found no booty, but found everdance of some cockroaches fishing at night, und some empty grog containers not in Queens English, Aaarrgh, the water state was very slow aud carm, in fact it was slower then this Pic, Aaarrgghhh



now that is slow, Aaaarghh yo ho ho

the water was clearer then a flagon of watered down grog from Crack Jennys Tea Cup cafe,

Fair winds yee dogs, may thee hooks never go blunt Aaaarrrgghh
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James Page



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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:45 am

willie, good job you're chris evans stunt double, was he happy with your performance
richard, good shout m8, did you get any pics of the swan carcass
keith, there's some funny inhabitants on crab island, is it anything to do with that offering we found to the dark side
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David Harvey

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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:13 am

Richard can you also let the Swan Sanctury know what you found

http://www.theswansanctuary.org.uk/

Thanks mate
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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:52 pm

This is from the EA, Keiths find of the trap at Penton Hook.

The EA noted it is a Crayfish net but looks like anything could go in it. It is an offence to set a trap without the consent of the Agency.

Well done Keith.

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Steve Holmes



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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:15 pm

William Pettigrew wrote:
had a walk along beverley brook with pauly 2 cups,stopped to have a look at some fish under the overhanging bank.
one second on the bank,next second in the brook with tree following me,and a couple of hundred pound of concrete kerbstone and half a ton of bankside soil affraid
it was as if my life flashed before me,i looked up from the 4 foot of water i was in through my splashed spectacles,and saw paul above me telling me to grab his hand

Shocked Glad you're alright mate, must've been a right shocker.
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Keith Collett

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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:49 pm

done a bit of fishing on Penton hook (crabs island). from yesterday, found 2 locations that has been fished over night, found two rod rest, keeped one and gave one to an angler on the island, to big for me to use, took all rubbish that was there away, found a sea hook, size 00, its big, also two english people turned up with big burrows around 1500hrs, full of stuff, to fish,
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Keith Collett

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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:50 pm

Admin wrote:
This is from the EA, Keiths find of the trap at Penton Hook.

The EA noted it is a Crayfish net but looks like anything could go in it. It is an offence to set a trap without the consent of the Agency.

Well done Keith.


do i get a gold blue peter bagde 🤡
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Keith Collett

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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:42 pm

photes tacken over the last two days at Penton Hook Island, people night fishing








have pick most of this up




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James Page



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PostSubject: Re: River Guardians Reports 2011/12   Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:07 pm

nice one keith, maybe we could arrange a nocturnal litter pick one evening
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